tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post4543036619333273361..comments2023-11-06T12:36:23.406-05:00Comments on Diary of a Children's Book Writer: Not an Outliner, but Must Succcumb...Sheri Perl-Oshinshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-6179074966387460112008-09-19T09:32:00.000-04:002008-09-19T09:32:00.000-04:00Devon, that is really interesting about your chara...Devon, that is really interesting about your characters not wanting to be simplifies in an outline. I can really see that. It feel un-organic when you do that with characters. I mean, even think about us... if we try to describe ourselves in an outline, we wouldn't really capture our essence. I can see how that is true for characters as well.Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-83820343304846194882008-09-17T15:15:00.000-04:002008-09-17T15:15:00.000-04:00That's interesting, Sheri.I think every project ha...That's interesting, Sheri.<BR/><BR/>I think every project has its own process, and you kind of have to reinvent the wheel a bit.<BR/><BR/>I also find that the more I publish, the more deadlines I'm under, the more projects I juggle, the more I need to outline to stay on top of everything. I have to be able to sit down and the computer and dive down the well of whatever project's on the top of the heap that day.<BR/><BR/>However, I CANNOT write ABOUT my characters in notes. I can write plot, setting, even snippets of dialogue -- but if I try to dossier a character, I lose the character. I need the discovery process of the character in the first draft.<BR/><BR/>Yeah, I'm a freak, I know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-52600932481127116552008-09-16T14:17:00.000-04:002008-09-16T14:17:00.000-04:00Good point PoetryGirl. Anything that keeps you awa...Good point PoetryGirl. Anything that keeps you away from the goal - which is writing - even if it's an outline - is not a good thing!Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-69043541092401988012008-09-16T12:32:00.000-04:002008-09-16T12:32:00.000-04:00I used to not outline. Then I started outlining an...I used to not outline. Then I started outlining and it got out of control. I was focusing so much on the outlining that I wasn't writing or moving forward with my stories. Now, I lightly outline. I like that better.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-82439168246896809992008-09-13T18:50:00.000-04:002008-09-13T18:50:00.000-04:00Hey Chris! Me too! But now I am finding I actually...Hey Chris! Me too! But now I am finding I actually need an outline. I want to make sure I tie up all loose ends. When I went back and read my first 85 pages, I was amazed with how many loose ends I had actually forgotten. so, alas, I will have to transform into an outliner... The thing about outlining is I used to think it was dull and boring. I loved the thrill of writing the story for story's sake. But I actually have been finding these brainstorming sessions really fun and motivating. <BR/><BR/>Beth - I hear you about writing the first draft and then outlining. The first draft is when we actually discover our story. I have been writing, and editing, and rewriting, and revising as I go. So my first draft is really like a 1.6 draft. I guess that's why I need an outline at this point...Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-41098435589679215622008-09-13T17:14:00.000-04:002008-09-13T17:14:00.000-04:00I'm not much of an outliner -usually need a first ...I'm not much of an outliner -usually need a first draft before an outline. I'm looking forward to reading everyone's comments.Angelahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14741384161639818654noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-69617405653334132022008-09-13T17:07:00.000-04:002008-09-13T17:07:00.000-04:00This is interesting because I've been basically re...This is interesting because I've been basically resisting this.<BR/>I like to outline in my head. I'll write a chapter, then go back and edit previous chapters.<BR/>I have an idea of what to include, but I find outlining frustrating.<BR/>Just me....Chris Eldinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11794946908789120139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-3238572337874858122008-09-13T14:15:00.000-04:002008-09-13T14:15:00.000-04:00Jeanie, that sounds like great advice and somethin...Jeanie, that sounds like great advice and something I am more likely to do - write the outline until I can't - write the pages until I need to outline again, and keep going around that way until it is completed. <BR/><BR/>I guess the lesson learned here, is there is no one way to write a novel - not even for novelists. As PJ said, each novel seems to need different things from her as the writer. Let the novel tell you what is needed, don't fight the process, and go with the flow. <BR/><BR/>Thanks everyone! This has been very helpful for me.Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-56765701858869932502008-09-13T11:19:00.000-04:002008-09-13T11:19:00.000-04:00When I approach a new project, I start with an ove...When I approach a new project, I start with an overall outline: what major things should happen in each chapter. Then as I'm preparing to write each individual chapter, I create a more detailed outline of the scenes and events that will happen within the chapter. <BR/><BR/>I often find as I'm outlining a chapter a scene will begin to play out in my head. I don't fight it in favor of continuing the outline work, but go with the flow and write the scene down right then. I don't want to waste the moment. Losing myself in an emerging story is what makes me love writing.<BR/><BR/>I was working on a new novel last spring and had to stop about two months ago. I am really glad I have a detailed outline waiting for me when I get the chance to return to it. Otherwise I'm sure by now most of my original ideas for it would be lost forever.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the great topic, Sheri.Jean Wogamanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14464446396668373473noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-13149096279714239722008-09-12T19:35:00.000-04:002008-09-12T19:35:00.000-04:00Thanks PJ! And I agree with you. I think I will fi...Thanks PJ! And I agree with you. I think I will find that each book has a life of its own and demands certain preparation.<BR/><BR/>Oh and thanks, you enjoy your soggy weekend too!Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-18584333198888492412008-09-12T18:53:00.000-04:002008-09-12T18:53:00.000-04:00i experiment every time, I spend months outlining ...i experiment every time, I spend months outlining and character developing on one project, but on the next I spend day and can't stand it and start writing.<BR/>So maybe each book is different?<BR/>Oh, wait - I see Beth has said that below!<BR/><BR/>Have a great weekend, Sheri!<BR/>Real writers do not have to outline.PJ Hooverhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02602205868934777662noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-85911968504746350472008-09-12T18:48:00.000-04:002008-09-12T18:48:00.000-04:00Welcome Chad! And I'm glad you finally decided to ...Welcome Chad! And I'm glad you finally decided to say hello and that you've found my blog - enjoyable! 8) I've heard the first novel is the learning experience. Sounds like you definitely learned from your first experience too! My first screenplay sits in the bottom draw of my file cabinet - probably never to see the light of day! (or the dark of a theater either!!!)Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-3834547387118881482008-09-12T18:04:00.000-04:002008-09-12T18:04:00.000-04:00I've been enjoying your blog and I figured I shoul...I've been enjoying your blog and I figured I should say 'hi'.<BR/><BR/>I didn't outline at all, including during my first novel. That is probably why it is 265 pages of ick, waiting for some future time when I can go back and rework it from scratch. For my current novel, I have a scene-by-scene outline and it has made a huge difference. It lets me skip around between different scenes without losing track of the story and forced me to develop the plot before I wrote myself into a corner. For someone who used to believe that outlines were a waste of time, I have become the converted. Good luck with yours!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02378547566593756176noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-24903168091150578902008-09-12T17:28:00.000-04:002008-09-12T17:28:00.000-04:00Keri - But you have a book coming out! How did you...Keri - But you have a book coming out! How did you write it without outlining???<BR/><BR/>KM - right there with ya sista! I wish I had an agent too. But I know I'm not ready. Well, my story's not ready. But as soon as it is... I will be querying agents, not publishers.Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-89423394778220948422008-09-12T16:37:00.000-04:002008-09-12T16:37:00.000-04:00Hi Sheri,First, thanks for your insightful comment...Hi Sheri,<BR/>First, thanks for your insightful comment on my blog. Weird you suggested I get those mansucript copies back because my sister called me last night to say she had done just that. And, I wish I had an agent. Still working on that one...<BR/><BR/>As far as outlines go, nope, don't use 'em. However, I do see value in them if they help the story get out of one's head and onto paper.<BR/><BR/>I know that is all of our ultimate goals!!K. M. Waltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07167022736028223997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-64712193148850354172008-09-12T13:54:00.000-04:002008-09-12T13:54:00.000-04:00I never outline.. But, I should. Because the probl...I never outline.. But, I should. Because the problems I have to fix when I revise could have be averted if I outlined. Grrr.. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for asking.. Because I'm learning a bunch about outlining from the comments. :)Keri Mikulskihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10674081854220914215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-62312728959475803952008-09-12T13:15:00.000-04:002008-09-12T13:15:00.000-04:00Barrie, I think the tides are turning and I am fin...Barrie, I think the tides are turning and I am finally seeing the benefits to outlining. They are HUGE, actually. Thanks for the tips, I will be sure to highlight the hero's journey as I am outlining so I will be sure I have all story aspects. Thanks for the reminder! Duh!!<BR/><BR/>Anti-wife - I think probably people do that kind of outlining for subsequent drafts... but it's all good as long as I have crossed every t and dotted every i, no matter how I get there, right?<BR/><BR/>Beth, this is similar to what I used to do. But now I find, there is so much to remember and be sure I have resolved, that the remembering of it all kept me from writing forward. So now I am switching mid-way to outlining it and getting it all out of my head and scratchy notes and into an actual outline. From one non-outliner to another, though, I'll let you know how it goes.Sheri Perl-Oshinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08025716805041579831noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-43952990135802378632008-09-12T12:52:00.000-04:002008-09-12T12:52:00.000-04:00Hate outlining! But this new book I'm working on ...Hate outlining! But this new book I'm working on is pretty complex, so I am actually doing much more than before.<BR/><BR/>Basically, when I'm at my computer, I type the story. Sometimes, I'll be too tired to keep writing, so I jot down on screen my ideas for the end of the scene/chapter, whatever, in italics just at the bottom of the page.<BR/><BR/>Whenever I want to work on the book, but not actually type story, I use a legal pad to write down everything I can think of. I've got ideas on the world, the motivations of some main character, a rough sketh (like a sentence or so) of each chapter, and notes on what I know will be a very generalized version of the end. I've even got some rough drawings (I am not an artist) of things in the book.<BR/><BR/>For me, just handwriting the notes down is enough to keep me on track. I remember the notes when writing, so I don't go too off course. And if I do get stuck, I usually just refer to the notes and find an idea.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11431700962951592287noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-104838082906590812008-09-12T12:39:00.000-04:002008-09-12T12:39:00.000-04:00My outlines are very basic, but I love the idea of...My outlines are very basic, but I love the idea of going back to what's already written and doing a detailed outline. That seems like a good way to get more focused on the story.The Anti-Wifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02027321787352577548noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3971808675697780700.post-58177377705484298722008-09-12T12:34:00.000-04:002008-09-12T12:34:00.000-04:00I am a huge outliner. don't always love doing it. ...I am a huge outliner. don't always love doing it. BUT I do love writing from one! I start off with the major plot points, darkest moment, etc. Then I start weaving in The Writer's Journey stuff. Then, it's an outline of chapter by chapter. That's just me though. I'm a bit of a control freak. Ask my kids. ;)Barriehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04678698296265168217noreply@blogger.com